We're now on our third Survival Day and the thrill is gone. Samantha isn't all that sick, but she does have a fever and we haven't gotten out of the house at all. Cleaning chores are building up and there's not much food left in the house. And now we're at the point that I hate, where Sam still isn't feeling well but she's figured out that she can get away with murder because Mommy is giving her special treatment.
This time, I vow to end the spoiling the moment the fever breaks. Still, we're in for a whining, screaming, annoying little girl for a few days, at least.
This does remind me, however, to report that our crackdown on bad behavior did work. It took about 10 days, with time-outs slowly diminishing in number and duration, until we started having days without time-outs again. There have been a few incidents since we returned from Florida but overall things are better and one time-out is usually all that is required when Sam breaks the rules.
Still, I feel like I'm missing something in the discipline department. One morning, after we went through the crackdown, I went to get Sam out of her crib in the morning and she was soaking wet. I told her I was going to change her diaper right away. She flipped out. I was so tired, I just didn't want to do the time-out. Adam was still home so I got him to help me hold her so I could change her diaper by force. I haven't done that in a long time, and it was almost impossible, even with 2 people. But it seemed to have an impact on her.
We never, ever hit Samantha. If she hits a person or an animal, we might grab her hand and tell her no hitting before we put her in time-out, and we certainly have to get very physical with her when she gets up off the stairs when she is supposed to be in time-out, but that just means picking up her squirming little body and placing it on the stair with certainty. She has fallen off chairs, hit her head on the ground, and hurt herself in other ways during this process, but it has never been because we intentionally inflicted pain on her.
So if I'm willing to use force to put her in time-out, why am I so hesitant to force a diaper change? I think part of it is that I am afraid I won't be able to win the physical battle. You don't want to engage a child in a physical battle and lose. Should I be physically capable of forcing my 2 year old to let me get a diaper on her? Because I suppose I could do it, if I was willing to use more force. But how would I know if I'm hurting her or how much? Is it ok if she hurts a little in that situation?
But I'm not sure that's the whole issue. I seem to still have some kind of bad premise working, where I'm confusing abuse with something else, and I think it is making me a weak parent. I hate to think what kind of answers I might get, but I'll still ask all my readers: Do you have any advice? When and how do you force your child to do something?
Jenn, I love the idea of asking Sam if she needs help holding still. The problem is, if she doesn't care about a question, she answers Yes by default. She's just not that verbal yet. But it might help. I'll try it next time she seems to be just flailing about.
ReplyDeleteBut usually, she is not flailing about. She just squirts out of my arms if I'm trying to put her in the car seat, or she flips over so I can't change the diaper or whatever.
And how do you stop a hit before it happens? I've been able to back away sometimes, but then I feel like she has accomplished her goal - to make me back off. One time she tried hitting my hands on the handle of the shopping cart so that I could not push it. It doesn't seem enough to "duck a punch" and just say "use your words." What I usually do in that situation is to wait for the next hit and then force myself to take it so that I can punish her. That seems crazy, but I don't know what else to do. Luckily, the hitting is less of a problem than the not-cooperating.
Also, I totally agree that this is a good development in her. The link in this post gives the context about that. (Also about how we take GREAT pains to treat her with respect from the get-go.) I also have no problem with the need for repetition and I very rarely take her behavior personally, as Principled Parent wrote about today too. But it is indeed defiance. Not really of ME, but just testing.
Finally, I don't have any goal for the time outs in the way that you put it. She's not supposed to think or reflect. She might need to calm down, but not always. In my previous post I explain the situations we decided to use time outs for, but there is no real reason except that these things seem like out-of-bounds behavior that needs to stop and we haven't been able to find another way. It's just a punishment. We don't have a problem with food on the floor or writing on the wall or things like that - we treat those in a similar way as you (and PP). The "don'ts" are easy. It's the "you musts" that are hard.
Can you point me to your post that Kevin mentioned in PP's comments where you say obedience is not a virtue? That is the exact issue I'm struggling with.
Jenn, not too wordy for me, and no, you don't sound like a know-it-all. However, we are already doing (almost) everything you talked about, and it's mostly the last part, where the "you must" comes in, where I'm having trouble. I didn't understand what you meant by, "Well then I have to do XYZ so that we can go/do ABC..." Is that when you would "force" the child?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I will try your suggestion of ducking the hit and using the explanation of how hitting hurts so I'm moving my body away. But she does indeed hit in order to accomplish getting me away from her. Just today, we were at the doctor (she is sick and cranky and the hitting came back) and getting ready to leave. The doctor had treated her disrespectfully, using the tongue depressor without explaining beforehand (I hate that kind of doctor!) and Sam was upset about that. I had taken a moment to explain that the doctor should have asked her first, but that she was helping to make Sam better. Still, when trying to enlist her cooperation in getting her coat on, Sam hit at me as I raised the coat near her. It was definitely in self-protection since she was feeling vulnerable from the doctor. But if I duck and explain, what would I do next? I guess I feel that trying a game at that point would be wrong because hitting is a heinous offense and should not be rewarded with fun. This is usually the point at which I require her obedience for exactly the reason that I don't want to let her "get away with" hitting.
But I guess what you are saying is that hitting is NOT a heinous offense because there is no such thing from a two year old. Is that what you are saying?
What I did was give her 4 consecutive time outs, because she hit at me every time I approached her. (Even knowing she might do it, I was never able to catch her arm - I guess I'm slow.) Then I told her she had to stay in the chair until she was ready to talk about it. I sat near her playing my handheld solitaire game and not looking at her. That took another half hour, but then she said, "please mommy" and I expained again that hitting was not ok, and everything was fine after that.
Parenting by Force -- if there is one thing I'd like to change in my routine, that is it. There are times when no choice is available. (at least not top of mind available) We must go (dr. appt, work schedule, family schedule, etc) and 4 year old is either playing or otherwise refusing to budge.
ReplyDeleteAt some point, physical force will escalate until it reaches a point where it stops working. This is all well and good for a 4 year old, but cannot continue to 17 year old. When child is pre-rational, I don't think there is any choice sometimes, but definitely I need to re-read Jenn's comments above for more ideas.
For us, timeouts are effective, but we still have to work to avoid giving 20 warnings and no timeout and move to more immediate implementation. Defining timeout: 1 minute per year of age, time spent standing or sitting in a very boring place in the house where no play or other interaction is allowed. This is punitive, intended to "provide a reason" to not engage in the bad behavior, and to do it in a method that a semi-rational mind can grasp, especially when the real consequences of their troublesome actions cannot be grasped by them or are otherwise ignored by them.
Hitting and name calling are now an instant timeout in our house. There is no warning.
Playing when he should be getting dressed (or picking up or going potty on his own) is definitely an issue, it is especially an issue under time contraints which then requires force to resolve :(. We've moved to a reward points + penalty points system as an attempt to provide a more immediate rational self interest to good behavior, but I have the feeling it will be a bribe and not a legitimate reward.
Of course blogging when he should be sleeping is also a problem, and so I give myself a timeout... ;)
rootie
Jenn: I love this discussion. My time-out procedure is straight from the Supernanny TV show:
ReplyDeleteBad behavior occurs (sometimes there has been a warning, but with hitting, no warning - once and out)
I say, "No hitting" (or, "I warned you not to scream at me and you continued to do so"). "You will sit in time out for 2 minutes."
Physically take her to designated spot. Set timer if available. (In doctor's office, this was a chair a few chairs away from me and I used my watch.) If she moves too far out of the area, put her back and reset timer. This might go on for an hour.
Do not interact with her while in time out.
When time is up, go to her, get down on her level and ask her to look at me. Explain why she was put in time out. "I put you in time out for hitting. Hitting is wrong. It hurts. Do you understand?" (We tried making her say "sorry" or repeating, "no hitting" but I think this is asking too much from her so I've dropped that part.) As long as she doesn't hit me, then we have hugs and kisses and move on. If the problem was that she wouldn't cooperate with something, like putting on a coat or getting her diaper changed, we go immediately back to that activity. Sometimes she will still fight it, but rarely.
If she screams or hits at me when I go back, we do another two minutes. This was getting crazy when we went through the bad spell in December, so I also tried just leaving her in the chair or wherever until she called me. We did this at the doctor. After 4 tries, she still hit me so I told her I would not come back until she was ready to talk to me instead of hitting. She amused herself on the chair for 20-30 minutes before saying, "please mommy." Then we had the talk and all was well.
I agree about not forcing every issue. I've let her go without her coat a few times recently and she got cold. Good consequence with no work at all on my part! I could have done that this time, but I didn't want the fact that she hit me to result in not having to put on her coat. That's what I mean by "not getting away with it." When she hits, I don't want to give any positive reinforcement. But remember, I don't do this with every bad behavior. If she screams at me, I always give her chances to tell me "nicely" with her words what she wants. If she then says, "no coat mommy." Then I'll probably let her go without, and when she's cold I'll tell her that coats keep us warm, etc etc.
rootie: ha!!!! I need to give myself a timeout on the blogging too. :)
ReplyDeleteYou do timeouts the same way we do. I should have mentioned in my last response to Jenn that it is 2 minutes, 1 for each year of age.
Recently we had to refocus on not doing the endless warnings, too. Even a 2 year old learns not to take you seriously if you do that. And I like that you have clearly defined what gets NO warning. Same in our house with the hitting.
The bribing issue is interesting too. I've started offering "fruit candy" as encouragement for tasks like taking off her coat (which she should be capable of, but just doesn't seem to want to do), or leaving her shoes on while in the car. I would not bribe to get her to "behave." But it's still early for me on this issue. It will surely get more complex when she is older.